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Hi Everyone
Just started to get into HD by purchasing a Blu Ray and HD DVD player (spoilt moi?)...
And it occurred to me having a look at the boxes of the discs that in the HD world is NTSC and PAL now irrelevant? DVDs mastered for HD are either 1080i or 1080p but interestingly a lot of the sleeves state that the extras are in SD - but have it as 480i or 480p which is surely an NTSC frame size. Surely if it were PAL it would 576i or 576p...
Enquiring minds need to know
Steve
60i playback of 24p material
60i playback of 24p material is supported, just as it is with SD DVD players, is that what you mean ? You're right that going 25p to 24p is standard for movie footage and relatively benign, but starting with 50i material this would mean de-interlacing, losing a lot of the perceived extra motion resolution of a 1080i capture in the process.
Incidentally all the PAL framerates are part of the spec, this is purely a practical limitation of the players at this point in time, and it applies to both SD and HD resolutions, to the best of my knowledge. The alleged firmware updates could be coming tomorrow - or not...
Ian
I certainly agree...
The specs support all frame rates and line counts for SD so it does seem like one shouldn't have to go through conversions.
I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more straightforward to re-time from 25 to 24 fps (film is routinely re-timed from 24 to 25 for PAL transfers). Do either of the formats support 48i material?
Michael
The problem is video
I agree for film-based material it's not too much of an issue. However there is lots of European material shot at 25 fps, usually interlaced. Currently all of this needs to be frame-rate converted which involves a fairly hefty quality hit, and certainly is much more time-consuming and expensive. As a prime example, think of "Planet Earth" - by the time the HD DVDs came to be made, the only version available was the 1080i broadcast masters. All of which had to be converted - it's a real shame it couldn't simply have been encoded in the native format...
Ian
Too true
I agree - I was just curious as I hadn't really looked at the discs before buying a player - it basically means that the studios are using the same encodes for all their releases - which makes sense to me...
As long as I can see the pretty pictures I don't really care what format it's in
What about 24P material @ 1080?
If this is what's being put on the majority of HD-DVD/BD discs, isn't the question about PAL -vs- NTSC *frame rates* a red herring? As long as the player can convert this to something your display can handle, all should be good. The same holds true for any SD materials: as long as the player can output a signal you can watch, what does it matter (to the viewer, that is)?
Michael
Interesting
Hi Ian
Thanks for that - that kind of explains why all the extras on things like Spiderman etc are flaged as 480i/p. Makes you wonder if anyone will bother will PAL encodes if you can basically use the same encodes worldwide. I suppose as the encodes are usually 24fps at the end of the day the 3:2 pulldown etc is less of a problem on HD? I assume that the frame rate would be effectively the only differnetial because isn't the frame size/pixel width (or whatever it's called) the same - so NTSC and PAL kind of do exist but don't, if you see what I mean...
I went with the Samsung BDp 1400 and a Toshiba A35 from the US. Haven't hooked them up yet - ordered loads of movies though. Couldn't wait for the Samsung Duo player as it now looks like it isn't coming out till next year... and I wanted an early Crimbo pressie... and personally I just want to see movies in the best way possible so don't really care about the format war...
Steve
NTSC only for now...
Hi Steve,
Welcome to the club ! Which player(s) did you go for ? To answer your question, Yes, PAL and NTSC still exist. However European HD DVD Players don't support PAL framerates, at the moment. This will supposedly be fixed by a future firmware upgrade, but in the meantime all HD DVDs need to be authored as NTSC, unfortunately. Since encoding costs are one of the major costs of HD authoring at this point, many people are using the same encodes for their Blu Ray releases, which effectively limits those, too - although afaik PAL encodes on BD are fine in players.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Ian
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