Rivergate Software Inc. - makers of DVDAfterEdit

Posted Jul 08,2005 8:52 AM Will

I took my time but I finally made it over :-)

What a great programme DVDAfterEdit is! I really like it. I especially enjoyed nuking the abstraction layer for first time - Ahhh (a sigh emanating from a feeling of lightness after a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders)

So this being my first time, inevitably I have a few questions ;-)

I used the first release of DVDAfterEdit to re-author this DVD5 project. As a starting point I read up on Ben's informative articles. My project is fairly basic, a main menu, two scene selection menus, and an extras menu, with four VTS; a warning & logos track, the main feature, and two extra tracks. There is a transition into the main menu when the DVD starts up, a transition from the main menu to both the scene selection menu and extras menu. No transitions going back to the main menu.

When deciding upon the structure I roughly followed Ben's example in "Spec. Authoring Menu Transitions & A Multi Stream VTS" http://www.tfdvdedit.com/public/112.cfm - I liked the idea of putting all the menus in the VMG. Then using the value in SPRM 8 when going from the scene selection menus to the track, as Ben illustrated. Then following Ben's idea in "Simple DVD Spec. Re-Authoring With DVDAfterEdit, Part 3" http://www.tfdvdedit.com/public/107.cfm I made it so that when the menu button was pressed during playback of the main feature, the last chapter played was highlighted in the appropriate scene selection menu. (Presuming of course that the main feature had been accessed from a scene selection menu). I tested various scenarios to make sure this worked correctly. I got my motion menus looping correctly and all the transitions working as they should. I tested the projected, burnt off a DVD-R, all worked wonderfully.

Then I noticed that the project was actually bigger than the original VIDEO_TS file. Hmm.

Here's a basic overview of the structure:

VMG: 5 menus:
VMG PGC 1 (dummy) used for Title Key
VMG PGC 2 (2 programs) intro and main menu
VMG PGC 3 (2 programs) transition from main and scene selection menu 1
VMG PGC 4 (1 program) scene selection menu 2
VMG PGC 5 (2 programs) transition from main and extras menu

VTSM 1 (dummy) jump to VGM PGC 1
VTS 2 warning and logos
VTSM 2 (dummy) jump to either VGM PGC 2 (main) or VGM PGC 3/4 (scene menus)
VTS 2 main feature
VTSM 3 (dummy) jump to VGM PGC 5
VTS 3 extra 1
VTSM 4 (dummy) jump to VGM PGC 5
VTS 4 extra 2

I built a new version of the project from my original DVDSP project and started re-authoring the project in DVDAfterEdit. The only difference I noticed was that VTSM 2 contained audio in the larger project - there was no audio in VTSM 2 in my original re-author/build. If the VTSM 2 is a dummy menu, how I have I managed to do this?

Also I noticed in VTSM 1 - a dummy menu - that there was audio in the VTSM 1. Does this need to be there? Neither VTSM 3 nor 4 have audio in them.

If this audio doesn't need to be there, how do I get rid of it?

Is this likely to be the reason for the increased file size?

I also notice, comparing the actual VIDEO_TS files of the two projects, that the VTS_02_VOB.0 is bigger in the larger project.

Final question, once I have this little issue resolved, I feel safer using Gear to write to DLT, having used it successfully in combination with IFO Edit to write my DVD projects to DLT for sometime.

Now I do have a UL4D in my Mac, so I could attach my DLT 7000 to my Mac and use DVDAfterEdit. What do you guys recommend?

Many Thanks

Will

Posted Jul 08,2005 12:26 PM ianshepherd

Hi Will,

Welcome to the party :-) I think we got to the bottom of this when you 'phoned me, but I'm posting the reply here anyway in case it's useful to anyone else.

I think the reason you are seeing an increase in the project size is because when you Import your menus into the VMG, the original menu data is duplicated, but the original VTSM VOB is not deleted. And, deleting the VTSM PGCs doesn't actually destroy the original VOB data either, only the references to it in the IFO files. ( So the muxed menu data stays in the VTSM VOB files, but there are no references to it in the DVD's logical structure - the player won't "know" it's there. ) To remove the video data completely, select the VTSM node in the left pane, control-click and select "Delete Menu VOB".

I think the reason that audio has "appeared" in the dummy PGC may be because the VOB file contains audio ( even if it's just silence ) and the default dummy VOB will relect this. Or, perhaps it's just so that if you chose to "stuff" it with video data, the audio fields would be present to aquire the correct values - Larry may be able to shed more light on this.

I'm not sure why the size of the VTS_02_0.VOB has increased though... by how much ?

Lastly, if I were you I would use dvdAE to write your DLTs - why not ? Mastering has been solid for months now. Since it's your first project, I would recommend you write and verify the DLT, then Restore the DLT back to the hard drive, and use the restored files to make test copies using Toast - this way your clients are testing exactly what will be on the pressed disc. You could also use a file comparison utility ( DirPrudence is my favourite on the PC ) to give a second re-assurance that the files on your DVD-R match the original post-edited build.

Good luck, glad you're enjoying yourself !

Cheers,

Ian

Posted Jul 08,2005 3:18 PM larryapple

Hi Will,

It's gratifying to see our program put to such good use, and thanks to Ian for his help. We will be adding to our documentation and examples and trying to clarify the relationships between the logical structures (PGC's, etc) and physical (VOB's).

It can be helpful to look at the program map in the right pane for a PGC in your VTSM 2. Even though all of the PGC's might be dummies, for DVDSP projects you will always see at least one available cell. This is a short piece of silent black video, that is normally not referenced by anything. You may drag it into the program map, and then preview it, to verify what it is. It won't hurt anything to do so and it will never be played as long as your pre commands send navigation somewhere else. Or you can deliberately cause it to be played in the Apple player, and see if there really is any audio.

If your project has only this single, silent cell in VTSM 2, yet shows audio when you click on VTSM 2 Menus, then an error has occurred, possibly during importing, and I would be very interested in tracking it down. I tried a couple of simple experiments and was unable to cause this problem.

Please let us know if you are able to find out any more information.

Regards,

Larry

Posted Aug 15,2005 2:55 PM Will

Hi Larry and Ian,

You guys hit the nail on the head - I had not properly deleted the Menu VOB data. Sorry I took a while to get back to you.

As Ian suggested I had simply deleted the PGCs and had not deleted the original VOB data.

The reason that VTS_02_0.VOB had increased in file size is because, at one point during my 'playing around process', I had imported all the menus to VTSM 2. Then later I deleted the PGCs but not the original data.

Thank you for pointing out the use of the program map, I now understand the relationship between the Available Cells and Program Map.

I'm currently playing around with the 24 play list project, using Tracer to figure out how the navigation is working. Tracer's cool isn't it? I find it really useful for gaining an understanding of complex projects - and for me the 24 play list project is suitably complex.

I've also got a few DLTs on the go in manufacturing, DVD After Edit is well and truly part of my workflow now.

Thanks Guys

Will